Episode 9 – How Zycus delivered 7.4x ROI with precision targeting on LinkedIn

[00:25] Kaushal: Welcome friends to The Growth Genius powered by Infidigit. My name is Kaushal Thakkar. I’m the founder of Infidigit and your host for this show. Each week, I interview geniuses who have created phenomenal digital growth. We discuss the key techniques and share insights to help you learn and create your own growth story. With around 660 million users, LinkedIn is the largest online platform for professionals. Personally, I am on LinkedIn more than any other social platforms. It helps me connect with like-minded professionals. With around 60 million-plus decision making senior professionals on LinkedIn; this is the place you should be if you want to network with the who’s who of the corporate world. And if you have to connect with these professionals at scale, LinkedIn advertising is the answer. Our topic for today is ‘How Zycus delivered 7.4X ROI by precision targeting on LinkedIn.’ 

We have with us a growth genius from Zycus, who will be sharing this case study and other LinkedIn insights with us. Ashish Agrawal works at the intersection of marketing technology, data and design. He is currently leading the digital marketing function at Zycus. His career journey has led him to work on B2B as well as B2C marketing projects with US, UK, Canada, India and Australia-based Fortune 500 brands, as well as emerging startups. Ashish has also received the ‘Top Hundred Digital Marketing Leaders’ Award from the World Marketing Congress and CMO Asia, three years in a row. Hi, Ashish, thank you so much for being on the show. How are you doing today? 

[2:10] Ashish: Hi Kaushal I’m doing great. Thanks for having me on The Growth Genius Podcast today. I’m excited to be here today. 

[2:16] Kaushal: Great! And Ashish, how’re you doing in this COVID situation? 

[2:17] Ashish: Doing good Kaushal I think it’s been a good five months now into the COVID situation, so I’m pretty used to working from home now, so it seems good for now. 

[2:29] Kaushal: Any plans to continue in the same mode or waiting just to get back into the office?

[2:33] Ashish: Yeah I wish… I mean there was a possibility of getting back to the office at least for some days of the week I would say, but I don’t think that’s going to happen anytime soon. So yeah we’ll continue and hope you know, the situation improves in a few months maybe.

[2:49] Kaushal: Really, okay, nice. So Ashish, for the audience who do not know you, it would help if you could give a short introduction about yourself

[2:57] Ashish: Sure! So yeah I’ve been working for almost 13 years now. So I’ve been associated closely with the tech and the digital marketing domain, I would say. So currently working as head of digital marketing at Zycus and also like an external trainer, consultant, a mentor in the digital marketing domain. 

[3:16] Kaushal: Wonderful! Ashish, you also recently were on the World Congress mentioned you let us know more about that. 

[3:23] Ashish: Yeah, so I got an award for ‘Top 100 Digital Marketing Leaders’ from the World Marketing Congress. I was actually fortunate to receive it three years in a row from them. So this they do it basis looking at what kind of marketing campaigns that the person has run, etc. So it’s an independent study done by this organisation. And they kind of chose me for three years so yeah, I’m grateful to receive that yeah.

[3:49] Kaushal: That’s good! No nominations or anything needed just selection from their side. 

[3:52] Ashish: Yeah, yeah no nomination I got a call directly from them. And that’s how I ended up getting it. 

[3:56] Kaushal: Wonderful! And that’s what makes you an influencer in the digital industry thanks for sharing that. Ashish let’s get into the topic and discuss more about LinkedIn per se. So let me start with this question and ask you why should people opt for LinkedIn advertising?

[4:13] Ashish: LinkedIn is a very unique platform today in the crowd of social media platforms that we have. First of all, it’s more on the B2B side. So organisations looking to do marketing on the B2B side typically tend to select LinkedIn as a platform. And there are various reasons which I can talk about you know why you would want to select LinkedIn. The targeting itself on LinkedIn to the nature of the platform right it is very unique as compared to other platforms like let’s say Facebook or Instagram, you have the ability to get into targeting by job titles, or you can target by job functions or even by seniority, right? So these are some things which typically you will not find on other platforms or even if you find them, you will see that you know, it does not work as well because, on Facebook, not many people will be serious about updating their professional credentials right? Vis a vis a platform like LinkedIn where people actually look up to that platform to advance their careers and make sure that it acts like an online CV per se, right. So the information is pretty updated, and that’s why targeting is also very specific to the professional or the B2B industry. And that’s why you have a much better chance of reaching out to your target audience. Right. So I think these are some of the reasons you know why you should definitely look into getting into LinkedIn advertising today. 

[5:29] Kaushal: True! And would do you recommend LinkedIn for specific kind of campaigns? 

[5:34] Ashish: There are a lot of different campaigns that you can actually run on LinkedIn for example, you can run a video campaigns right, so video typically works very well, or there’s something called as ABM you know running account-based marketing campaigns where you can actually upload a list of particular companies, and then you can target specific job titles only in those companies. So you can become as granular as you want to be or as broad as you want to be right? And then, of course, I talked about targeting via job titles. I think that’s a very powerful feature of LinkedIn which other platforms do not have at the moment. But that is something definitely which should be looked at if you’re getting into LinkedIn advertising. 

[6:13] Kaushal: Got it! The other thing over there I wanted to ask you Ashish is, have you experimented let’s say with product-based advertising vis a vis service-based advertising? Or would you say that okay, LinkedIn would be more suitable for services business or something like that? 

[6:26] Ashish: So I have typically run product-based advertising on LinkedIn, but I would say like any company which is selling to… which is into the B2B marketing space right I think they can benefit from LinkedIn be it products or services, services might work better because you know typically they end up being cheaper than products, right? So products typically have a longer sales cycle. So that might be the reason why you might see maybe more volume for services, but definitely it works well both ways I would say.

[6:57] Kaushal: For products as well? 

[6:58] Ashish: Yes. 

[6:58] Kaushal: And you mentioned about the B2B space, what about the B2C would you completely say no for those campaigns? 

[7:04] Ashish: No, definitely. I mean I would not say no for it we will have to actually analyse the product and the industry in-depth to understand you know what kind of audience it caters to. Yeah, and then maybe we can take a call. Of course, LinkedIn might be relevant in a lot of B2C scenarios, too. But let’s say you’re trying to sell something like a T-shirt etc. or a shoe right. For example, for those purposes for B2C something like a Facebook or Instagram definitely works well, because your target audience typically hangs out over there, right? Nobody looks to LinkedIn to buy a T-shirt or a shoe today. So you have to be cognizant of that fact and maybe take into account you know, whether your target audience is looking at LinkedIn for that kind of information, and then maybe then you can take that call, you know whether you want to do that. 

[7:52] Kaushal: Perfect, sounds good. For the people who are interested in doing LinkedIn campaigns, how do you recommend they start promoting themselves on LinkedIn, especially in terms of advertising?

[8:02] Ashish: If you’re just starting out with LinkedIn, I think what you should start off by is if you already are having a website etc. you should get into remarketing campaigns, right? because I’ve seen them to be you know, maybe the volume will not be as much but since you’re going after an audience, which already has a touchpoint with your brand, you will see conversions, and it will generally be a good experience and even let’s say you’re doing email marketing, right? So I’ve seen LinkedIn being a very good complement to email marketing because it is a more indirect form of marketing compared to email, which is like more direct, right so in these scenarios it works very well. And then apart from remarketing, I would suggest video campaigns because LinkedIn today has an ability for you to retarget people who have seen your videos, okay. So you can follow up your video campaigns with a remarketing campaign. I think that’s a very powerful feature on LinkedIn. So you can do that and then, of course, the job title based targeting or if it’s a specific requirement, then you can also go for account-based marketing campaigns. So I think this is the way that you can kind of shape up your approach to LinkedIn advertising. 

[9:06] Kaushal: Okay, and when you say account-based targeting it would be how do you break that thing up, what would be an account over here?

[9:11] Ashish: Account is essentially a company. I’ll give a simple example: let’s say you’re trying to go after different industry segments right as your clients so you can target let’s say 2000 or 3000 specific companies in that particular industry and you can put in your job titles, so it’s a very industry-focused campaign that you’ve created with specific companies and specific job titles. And you can then come up with assets or ads that you’re targeting to these people, which are talking specifically about this industry, and maybe your product, right? So it becomes extremely relevant. And this way you can custom tailor your campaign to your audience, so this is something that can be done on LinkedIn. 

[9:53] Kaushal: Nice, that helps. So usually it would be a video campaign or an image creative campaign which could be initiated first when the company does not have the remarketing data, and once they have it, they can start with the remarketing campaign. That’s what would be the major takeaway for me here. 

[10:08] Ashish: Yes, definitely. Yeah! 

[10:11] Kaushal:  And any specific metrics, which you recommend that people should be looking out for, especially when they’re advertising on LinkedIn?

[10:18] Ashish: It depends maybe on you knowing the marketing objective that you’re running for. For example, if you’re running a video branding campaign, then you will look at video views, or how many people looked at 25% of the video 50% of the video, so you can track all that in terms of video campaigns. If you are running a lead gen campaign then obviously, you will be taking a look at leads. What has been the cost per lead right and what has been my CTRs? So all the typical metrics, I would say that we’ll be looking at but yeah I mean mostly if you’re in a B2B marketing setup, then you will also have a CRM and a marketing automation platform. So once you get leads from LinkedIn, then they will qualify and then go as MQL, so marketing qualified leads into your CRM then you can maybe track things like you know how many marketing qualified leads I am getting and what are my cost per marketing qualified leads. Maybe you know to evaluate or narrow them down further into sales qualified leads, then you can look at those kinds of metrics. And then there are other ways also to kind of do attribution like and maybe also take a look at ROI figures, you know of what LinkedIn is giving you against. But that can be like a larger thing that you will do. But these are some of the things that you can look at I would say at a higher level.

[11:28]  Kaushal:  Okay and just for our audience CTR over there was the click-through rate which Ashish was mentioning about, and ROI is your returns on investment. So specifically on the return on investment, that’s an interesting piece, because that’s one of the metrics which I seldom see some people do miss out on. What would be the usual return on investment that a person who’s just starting with the LinkedIn ads, maybe after spending a particular amount should see? 

[11:53] Ashish: Starting off, it will be difficult to… so that’s why I was suggesting a remarketing campaign to start out with so that you see some sort of an immediate ROI, right? So I think starting off even if you know you spend something chances would be that you would make a loss you know when you start off with LinkedIn because of course, there is a lot of learning to be done and a lot of experiments to be done before you actually figure out you know what actually works. And then you can start spending more on things that work or figure out what kind of content is resonating with your audience. And then you can actually ramp it up and see those kinds of exponential rises in your ROI, right. So initial stages will, of course, we may be loss-making.

[12:32] Kaushal: Yeah that would be there definitely some bit of investments would be needed initially, but what should be that amount? Now let’s take an example. If there is a company like Zycus itself and they want to initiate LinkedIn advertising, what would be the initial budget that you would ask them to put into the advertising investments without thinking about ROI and when would you tell them that okay now start measuring the returns on investment. 

[12:56] Ashish: So I would see for figuring out what kind of budgets you want to spend, I would suggest you take a look at the CPCs that LinkedIn is suggesting you like the cost per click? How much is a click costing you in the region which you’re trying to market to, right? Based on that you can figure out you know how many clicks do you want in a day like maybe you need 20-30 or 50 clicks so that you can make at least something out of what you’re doing on LinkedIn. And then you can figure out how much they spends is coming to. I can definitely tell you that it varies significantly from one location to the other location. Like for example, advertising in India on LinkedIn today is much cheaper than you know, maybe running a campaign in the US. So there’s a huge gap over there. So it depends to a large extent where you’re running the campaign. I think yeah I mean initial stages if you’re able to even you know get a 1X or a 2X return that’s also great, because when you’re running campaigns on LinkedIn, even for measuring the ROI, so the sales cycle of typically these B2B services or products are typically long, right. It’s not like a B2C where a transaction immediately happens so that you can immediately measure what is happening. B2B  what will happen is you know maybe you run it for six months, and your sales cycle is, let’s say eight to 10 months. So you can just imagine, you know, you’ll get the data a lot later. And then you can measure it. And I would say you know if you are even getting what you’re investing out of LinkedIn in the initial year, I think that itself is a good benchmark to achieve. And I can tell you from a Zycus perspective, slowly in three-four years of running the campaigns, we were able to then come up to a 5x ROI, right on the next year when we had a 5X and we understood what’s working and making use of you know some new LinkedIn features which were coming out we were able to move up to a 7.4x ROI, right. So I would say in the initial stages, the ramp-up will not be you know significant, but as you keep on being consistent with it and keep on experimenting and investing on things that are working, slowly you will see it will start ramping up quite significantly is what I would say. 

[14:59] Kaushal: Understood! And those were really interesting numbers the 5X ROI and the 7.4X ROI would love to know more about it, but for the knowledge of our audience, if you could first tell us more about Zycus so that everybody is able to visualise the campaigns that you explain after this.

[15:16] Ashish: Zycus is basically we make software products in the procurement domain. So I mean if I have to explain in a very layman language, so whenever you procure something you know externally like raw materials, etc., in an organisation or suppose you know, an employee wants to procure a laptop for example or anything hardware, they will raise a request and that request will go through N number of approval cycles internally. And then there’s a procurement team right, who basically will enquire with their suppliers and find out which is giving them a good deal etc. And then buy it so this entire cycle you know from managing the approval flow to figuring out which supplier is getting you the best price etc. In fact, our software also uses a lot of AI tech and tells you in what quantity you should buy to get the best discounts you know, for example. Or maybe it will tell you okay wait three months to buy this product because in its lifecycle there is a discount after three months, which happens every year. So it will analyse all these trends and ensure that you kind of get the best deal on the things that you’re trying to procure. So this entire thing is managed by the software, and it’s called a source to pay procurement suite, which is the flagship software which Zycus makes. 

[16:28] Kaushal: Okay, perfect. And source to pay means the final payments, and everything also would be provided by Zycus system.

[16:31] Ashish: Yes, yes from sourcing to the payment thing yes exactly.

[16:38] Kaushal: Fine, and how big would be the client base for Zycus? I know the numbers, but yes, for the purpose of our audience. 

[16:44] Ashish: So we have 150 plus clients currently worldwide. So yeah, that’s the number. 

[16:51] Kaushal: Yes, so now we know much more about Zycus. So let’s start first with the challenges which you saw with Zycus in terms of the digital campaigns and how did you approach this particular solution where you received that 7.4X ROI? 

[17:07] Ashish: So I think when I had joined Zycus LinkedIn, we were already using LinkedIn, but I would say maybe you know there was a scope to do a lot more experimentation. So I think that is one area where I might have contributed after joining is bringing in that kind of experimentation culture not only on LinkedIn, but I also wanted to explore you know many things outside LinkedIn. So for example, if I have to tell you today, we also invest money in other platforms like Quora which we have figured out which works well for us. Maybe it’s not giving us as much scale as LinkedIn offers, because obviously, it has a lot more relevant audience, but it has become like a secondary platform for us, which gives us you know decent number of leads which convert into revenue, and it’s not as expensive. So this kind of thing we were able to evolve and figure out because of that experimentation culture. So we did a lot of experiments like running all these different kinds of campaigns like remarketing or targeting by running lead gen ads or targeting you have LinkedIn groups, right? So you can even target specific LinkedIn groups and run these campaigns. So all these things have worked phenomenally well. We started running videos; we focused more on remarketing. So a lot of things like we focused on branding video campaigns, something that we were not doing earlier like these ABM campaigns, which I talked to you about. So all these things we started experimenting and now over a period of time we understand what works for us in which region. And since we are armed with those kinds of insights and data, so we have the ability to now spend on things that work. And that’s how we are able to, you know scale up in the right direction and see the ROI skyrocket for us also from LinkedIn. 

[18:48] Kaushal: So it was more about that precision targeting as you mentioned which helped you to gain that particular…

[18:54] Ashish: So yeah definitely the targeting and lot of experimentation. So I mean, of course, LinkedIn is one of the things we do, but overall getting into that experimentation frame of mind that you know everything needs to be experimented with. And then the data needs to be looked at to figure out what works. It’s very simple to say, but I think it should be done on a continuous basis. And that’s the only way that I think anybody can actually understand what actually is working for them on different platforms so yeah…

[19:25] Kaushal: And during this particular journey right from that… because you would have also seen that 1x ROI for this particular campaign for Zycus and from the journey of let’s say 1X ROI to 7.4x ROI any other things which happened which you would like to share with the audience?

[19:42] Ashish: Some things worked really well. So for example, though we spent a lot of money, it worked really well for us. We came out with a dummies guide okay so it was a dummies guide to digital procurement transformation. So this was an asset that we got created with Wiley. Wiley is the publisher who actually makes these dummies guides. So any company can invest with them and come up with this kind of guides though it’s a little expensive. But once we had the asset and we started promoting it on LinkedIn, we started seeing a record number of leads and people you know because it’s a highly valuable asset for anybody looking to… and being a dummy’s guide, it also adds that third-party credibility, right. So I would suggest like if you want to see more success on LinkedIn, it is important to come up with a lot of thought leadership content too which can be used in your ads, etc. which is very relevant to your industry. 

Now, this should be both in house content that you’re making, which is really cutting edge and is seen as extremely valuable in the industry. Plus, if you can get these kinds of third-party assets into the mix too right so maybe it doesn’t need to be as expensive, or it can be depending on what stage you are in. But make an effort to kind of you know, get these co-branded assets out and see you know how it’s working on the audience. So I think this was one of the things I can share you know separately from what I’ve shared till now, which kind of worked really well for us yeah.

[21:09] Kaushal: And that’s really interesting right using third party assets and combining it with your LinkedIn marketing so as to get more leads. That’s wonderful. And outside the practice, which you already mentioned, are there any other best practices which you would recommend for the digital marketers who are doing their promotion campaign on LinkedIn?

[21:30] Ashish: From a best practice standpoint, I would say keep a continuous tab on the data definitely I mean that is important. CTRs I’ve seen they typically tend to be more than one 1-1.5% you know for ads which really perform well. So maybe you can keep a tab on that if it’s giving you a CTR more than 1 or 1.5%, so it’s doing pretty well so can take that as a benchmark is what I would say on LinkedIn. And other best practices. I mean, you just need to be consistent in your ads or the creatives that you put out; they look professional, nicely edited. So these things go a long way because you’re reaching out to a professional audience, right so it cannot be very shabby. So it definitely makes sense to have a professional designer on board with all this. That’s definitely there. 

[22:18] Kaushal: Yeah, I think you’ve covered many of those factors. Yes creative being the most important factor which plays a big role. In fact, I’ve seen a huge difference when the creatives were good, and the creatives were not that great; there was a huge difference in all the metrics. 

[22:32] Ashish: Yeah, I mean I think it immediately forms a perception in the mind of the person also seeing it. So if something is shabby, then it mostly won’t work. 

[22:40] Kaushal: Got it perfect. And that’s good enough for information on that particular topic. Ashish we would like to know more about yourself. So who do you follow in the industry or it could be any books or anything?

[22:53] Ashish:  In the industry, I follow Avinash Kaushik. So he works in Google and he writes a lot of analytics. I think he’s been one of the major contributors to Google Analytics. So I think I’ve learned a lot from his content over the years. Then I also followed Brian Dean, if you have heard of him from Backlinko. And I follow Rand Fishkin from Moz, Neil Patel, definitely. So he’s also been a good inspiration overall. So I think these are some of the prominent people I would say I follow in the industry. In terms of reading, I tend to read a lot. I mean I think, a couple of hours a day might be going into reading because I need to keep myself updated. So definitely, I subscribe to a lot of blogs, like Search Engine Land being maybe my go-to blog for daily kind of updates in the search world that can be like a daily blog that I follow. And then a number of things like Think With Google etc.  from which I get emails, which I look at regularly throughout the day so yeah.

[23:57] Kaushal: That’s wonderful. So, Ashish, you’ve really grown well since the last few years, right from engineering profile at TCS to the current role where you are heading digital marketing and strategy for Zycus, what are the factors that make you remain, so growth focused? 

[24:15] Ashish: So yeah Kaushal, as you mentioned, I was fortunate you know I worked in the tech industry, I worked with TCS for three years, so I did a lot of coding. And then after my MBA in marketing, digital marketing was evolving, and I worked in this field. So it was a perfect combination of tech and marketing. So I am very passionate about both of them. So I really love working in this field. So I think if you’re really passionate about the work that you do, it goes a long way that’s definitely there. And another thing which I would say you know like maybe when I was in my early 20s, and the typical thing at that point of time was you know maybe you should work four to five years in an organisation and then move on to your next opportunity you know if you’re jumping jobs that’s always been the thing. So I, for example, after my initial stints, I ended up working in a lot of different environments. For example, I worked in an agency which catered to mostly Fortune 500 clients, not in the Indian market. Then I worked in an Indian agency working with startups and mid-level companies in India. So I saw an entirely different way to approach digital. Then I worked in Conde Nast, which is a publisher right, so I saw how digital marketing works in the case of publishing or a media company. Right now, I’m working in an in house marketing team in a B2B marketing setup. So I get exposed to the entire marketing, tech stack, etc. 

So I think one of the keys that has been you know helpful for me to understand this from various different angles has also been my different levels of exposure that I have subjected myself to over the years intentionally to kind of get this kind of diverse experiences which makes you a very versatile professional in your field, right, and it also opens up a door to a lot of opportunities for you. So I think that landscape you know which was prevalent when maybe I was in my early 20s I think it’s time to kind of relook at that. And now, I would definitely suggest for people to work till they feel that there is some kind of growth happening in their career. And when they feel they can feel free to kind of move on to better opportunities and make sure that you expose yourself to diverse environments so that you remain more versatile. I think these have been some of the key things which have helped me overall in my career. 

[26:31] Kaushal: Great, that sounds good. And Ashish would be the suggestion to your younger self if you could time travel specifically to the day when you graduated out from Mumbai University and completed your computer engineering? 

[26:44] Ashish: I think maybe I would tell myself that focus more on building your own network, a professional network. Because I think at the start of my career  I was so focused on learning and doing good work that I think some of these things got missed out early in my career, the importance of which I learned later on in my career, right. So your network is extremely important. And there are I think a lot of opportunities to you at whatever stages of your career you are in, to kind of grow it. So it is definitely something which I would tell my younger self to build. And one more thing if I have to say maybe be more grateful for whatever you have achieved so far instead of just… of course everybody’s ambitious today, but maybe it also makes sense to be grateful that you know how far you have come. Right and then take on the next challenge, which is there in front of you so yeah.

[27:36] Kaushal: Very true, and that’s something which I would also resonate very well with the attitude of gratitude it always works. 

[27:44] Ashish: Yeah.

[27:45] Kaushal: Ashish we’ll move into the ‘Speed It’ round and I will request you to keep the answers max to a few words any specific quote that you live by? 

[27:55] Ashish: So I really like ‘Be Yourself.’ That’s a quote which I think is highly applicable in today’s time. 

[28:02] Kaushal: Yeah good and if not digital, what would you be doing? 

[28:04] Ashish: I would either be into software development, or I would be into music. So I’m also an amateur guitarist, so then I would be doing that otherwise, yeah. 

[28:15] Kaushal: Great any daily habit that has been a game-changer for you? 

[28:18] Ashish:  I used to work out earlier, but since this lockdown started, I have been working out for the last five months, and I’ve seen the changes you know I think it’s a game-changer. And another thing which I do daily is I listen to a lot of music. So that is also something which I feel helps me overall. 

[28:36] Kaushal: Great so when you said I understand that you started working out, people stopped, and you started working out during the lockdown. 

[28:45] Ashish: Yeah, I mean, I ordered actually a set of dumbbells, etc. and I made it a very regular and consistent thing. So I can see the benefits of doing it consistently over a long term. I would say.

[28:57] Kaushal: Inspiring, that’s inspiring. Any one thing which you would like to correct in your life?

[29:02] Ashish: I am trying to take better care of my finances. I’ve been pretty successful in the last couple of years. So I have been pretty spendthrift, I would say you know, so I’m trying to be more financially intelligent, I would say. So I’m trying to do that so yeah.

[29:18] Kaushal: Let’s define Ashish Agarwal in one word.

[29:20] Ashish: I would say resilient. I think I like that word a lot. Because everybody goes through a lot of ups and downs, but overall, I’ve seen you know I’ve come out every time. So now, it also comes with this inherent confidence at the back that you know whatever happens like you will come out of it so yeah.

[29:39] Kaushal: Understood. And Ashish, how can the audience stay connected with you? 

[29:41] Ashish: I think LinkedIn is a great place you can hit me up at linkedin/in/ashisha312 that’s my handle on LinkedIn. Or you can drop me an email at [email protected]. Or my Twitter handle is at @digiyogi312. So these are some of my handles where you can reach out to me. 

[30:00] Kaushal: Perfect it was a great session, any parting thoughts that you would have for our audience? 

[30:07] Ashish: Yeah so Kaushal, first of all, it was nice discussing and having a conversation with you, too today. As a parting thought, since we have, we talked a lot about LinkedIn you know what I would definitely say to everybody is making a personal brand today is very important. And I think five or ten years down the line; it will be much more important than what it is today. And LinkedIn still gives you a lot of organic reach, right? So, anybody who’s you know, doing anything, I would definitely suggest them to you know maybe start posting on LinkedIn and trying to form their personal brand from today itself so that you can maybe reap the benefits of that going forward too So that is something which I would want to you know definitely share.  

[30:48] Kaushal: Perfect and Ashish I have a lot of takeaways from this particular session and over and above the LinkedIn part that we spoke of I am going to take a few key takeaways with me. One thing is more to be in terms of being passionate about the things which you’re working on, network more, be in that attitude of gratitude, and definitely work out even during the lockdown state. 

[31:09] Ashish: Yeah, definitely Kaushal.  

[31:11] Kaushal: That helps. Thanks a lot, Ashish, for being on this particular show. It was a pleasure talking with you.

[31:17] Ashish: Same here Kaushal, I loved interacting with you today. 

[31:21] Kaushal: Thanks a lot, Ashish. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Growth Genius. I hope you learned something today that would help you to grow. If you did, please share this episode with your friends and family. If you’re listening to this on the Infidigit website, I would request you to use the Podcast app on iPhone or download Google Podcast or Spotify on your Android phone. Subscribing to this podcast will ensure that you get the episodes regularly on your phone. The podcast icons near the audio streaming widget on the Infidigit website should help you to navigate to the show on your podcast app. Also, if you haven’t yet, please subscribe to the Growth Genius Show wherever you’re listening to this podcast. Thank you so much for listening. Now go out there and create growth for yourself and your company. Thank you